If you are still in doubt as to Sun's plans for the future, particularly its relationship with Open Source and the GPL, you will find an eWeek interview with Jonathan Schwartz helpful. Here's part of what he said:
"Should we license technology from Microsoft, it would clearly advance the interests, for example, of the Java Desktop System, and if that's running on Linux, then that obviously helps the underlying Linux community as well as the overall growth and viability of open-source technology.
"Just remember, ....RealPlayer's not open-source, but its availability certainly enhances the value of our Java Desktop System.
"There is work done in the open-source community to advance StarOffice, but certainly Sun stands behind and indemnifies StarOffice. To the extent that we license protocols from Microsoft, we would be including them in StarOffice-and not obviously distributing them free of charge-just as we do today with RealPlayer.
"There is nothing that precludes us from taking the protocols we license from Microsoft and incorporating them into our products. Now, where those products run is up to Sun. So, if we take a license from Microsoft, there's nothing that precludes us from incorporating that technology into our Java Desktop System. "
So there you have it. It looks like Sun is indeed going to re-run Caldera, right down to creating a Linux distro (Java Desktop) with lots of proprietary addons in an attempt to enforce per-seat/per-employee licensing. Deja vu all over again. And it hopes we will all be foolish enough to not care about the GPL and thus forsake Red Hat and SuSE, etc. Dream on, Sun, dream on. The real question is, when that fails, then what will Sun do?
Schwartz attacks Red Hat:
"It's a naive analysis of the open-source community that says it's all about forking over source code. It's notit's about building community, about making investments in marketing, in developing technologies that run on, with and through the open-source community. We have a very long history of working with the open-source community.
"Despite some of our peers in the industry who hire people with titles like evangelist, our folks have titles like developer and architect, and they go work with the open-source community to build technologies and solutions that solve customers' problems.
"I would point back to the Java Desktop System as evidence of the work we've done with the GNOME community, the Mozilla community and the Linux community to really bring products to market that don't just add more lumps of source code into the source tree but deliver value to customers so that they want to inject money into an ecosystem and make it self-sustaining and profitable."
Sick to your stomach yet? He doesn't mind Novell, he says on page two, because he and Microsoft share a common view, and he thinks competition is a good thing:
"Novell's participation in the market is a good thing, because it validates the market as creating an opportunity for more than simply one company. So, I welcome the competition. To us, it's really emblematic of the nature of the relationship we have with Microsoft, which is a deeply held belief that a rising tide lifts all boats, and that interoperability between Sun and Microsoft grows the overall market for both of our products rather than advantages one company versus another."
Microsoft? That Microsoft? The one twice found guilty of antitrust violations? That Microsoft believes that a rising tide lifts all boats? Is Sun in for a shock someday.
He is totally into DRM, and authentication, and autoupdate, and it's all about market share. Here is a hint as to how to block them, should you care to:
"So, with interoperability and a focus on ease of use, we're trying to use both StarOffice as well as Java Studio Creator to create a broader market opportunity and add interoperability to that mix. It's about growing the largest market possible, trying to help build the biggest tent atop all the developers in the world rather than forcing people to go make choices that may preclude their opportunities. . . .So, I am very convinced, with Steve, that he who has the most customersand I would just add developers into thatis ultimately going to be the long-term winner. "
They don't have the biggest tent if developers stay away. And if you are in the mood to throw up, here's a couple of sentences that just might do it:
"We're going back to pub-sub, and we're moving away from a concept of 'I'm going to go to a Web site and pick up content.' The pull model of computingthe days are numbered. . . . At the end of the day, that's great [Sun's competition with Microsoft] for customers. The fact that we're committed to interoperability means either choice is a safe choice. We're very bullish on the future of the network and very bullish on the future of intellectual property in open source as well as in open standards to continue to drive that opportunity."
Excuse me? The "future of intellectual property in open source"? We certainly can't complain that they were confusing or schizo here. It's plain as day. It's going after Red Hat. It doesn't support the GPL. It will push open standards as being what you really want, not open source. Sun thinks that we won't care, as long as it's easy and fun. Itintends to be the substitute for free/open source software. Here you go: Brand X Linux. And it intends to destroy the Internet. If you think that sounds wonderful, stop and consider that if Sun gets its way, there would never be a Groklaw. Microsoft never did get the Internet. It thinks all we want to do is buy stuff. So, that's their plan, Stan.
I had a chance to take a look at Sun's Java Desktop evaluation CD, thanks to a friend who used to be a Java developer, until he got the CD and noticed the same thing I noticed when I tried it. First, there isn't any sign on the cover that there is anything GPL inside, even though there is plenty. It does mention Linux and the GPL VERY briefly in the command window during bootup, but it is so brief, unless you were paying very close attention, you could easily miss it. There is also a rather draconian EULA as you boot into the system that mentions absolutely nothing about the GPL anywhere and expressly forbids you from making copies of the CD. There is a brief mention of a third-party licenses directory in the EULA text. You really could get the CD and run it without ever knowing it had anything GNU/Linuxy in it or that the GPL provides you with guaranteed freedoms that Sun would like you not to know you have. My friend tells me he will no longer do any Java development. He was about to recommend to his boss that they do some Java Desktops, but now he intends to recommend only a distro that acknowledges its roots.
Are you convinced yet, all you folks who send me e-mail about how Sun really is supportive of the Open Source community? Not yet? Then how about this article in eWeek, where Schwartz calls Red Hat a "proprietary" Linux? He says they forked and now CIOs are noticing that "Red Hat has pretty much forked the distribution" so now they realize "open source does not equal open standards. Open standards, which Sun has always supported, are better. Proprietary open source [like RHEL] can come back and bite you."
"Informed of the comments, Red Hat spokesman Leigh Day offered that 'Red Hat Enterprise Linux is licensed under the GPL, and we're totally open source.'
'"[Red Hat is] not proprietary,' Day continued. 'We are fully committed to open source and our code reflects that. Red Hat has no proprietary software built in our distribution. Our core strategy is built on open source and we will not deviate from that strategy.' . . .
"In addition, Linus Torvalds, Linux's founder, considers Red Hat Linux to be Linux. 'Sure, RH definitely has their own vendor kernel, but it's not proprietary, and a number of the top Linux kernel contributors are Red Hat employees,' Torvalds said."
Time to think about OpenOffice and Sun pulling a SCO someday, gang. Remember that patent they put into their Linux distro, Mad Hatter? Time to think. It is thinking, but in old-fashioned ways, about mo' money, and it will fail there too, of course. Sun has made its choice and opted for The Way Things Used To Be. It's a new world, and Sun is not in it.
About Pamela Jones Known to millions of online readers as "PJ," Pamela Jones is the editor and moderator of Groklaw. They also know her as the heart of the open-source community's legal battle against litigation aimed at the Linux kernel and other free and open-source software.
Sceptic wrote: PJ, have
you the power to delete
dissenting comments here
as you do on your own
blog?
dravine wrote: Bob -
Perhaps I was unclear in
my original post. I
don't write java
applications, but I do
have the misfortune of
using them frequently.
The Eclipse project is
probably one of the more
well known projects, and
it is certainly one of
the best examples of Java
development out there.
It's certainly the most
stable Java app that I've
ever used, but it's still
slow. And before you
write something like
"well if you run java on
a 386 it's gonna be
slow!", I thought I'd
give you a rundown of
what I run this app on.
I've got a 2.4Ghz P4, 30
Gig UDMA5 hard drive, and
384 megs of ram, which is
why I think it's the tool
at fault.
I guess I'm just of the
opinion that there are a
lot better technologies
out there to build apps
on, at least for apps
that are designed to run
client side. I've lately
been using a lot...
Bob wrote: dravine
commented on 28 April
2004:
"Java is a load of
garbage, flat out. I use
it every day, and I hate
it every day. Apps
written in java are slow,
and unstable, so all this
java support is really
pointless. Yes, java lets
you write something that
runs on many platforms,
and it sucks on all of
them equally."
Woah.. there's an
interesting viewpoint. "I
create crap with this
tool everday - therefore,
it must be the tool
that's at fault." Hey
Buddy, did you ever stop
to think it might not be
the tool that's the
problem?
- BA
FUTURE wrote: I reallize
that Sun is closed to
Microsoft.
Sun is so
risky.
Microsoft's jump to High
End Server now.
How Sun can survy in the
future?
Sun will lost the
market in the future.
Microsof will say, "MS
Server is cheaper &
Better than Sun Unix
Server".
How Sun can sell
their Unix server any
more?
What Sun's really want to
do now?
Such as People say that "
Sun is giving up its
Future.
So disappointed.
After Sun help Microsoft
success in the world, can
Sun sell expensive Unix
Server any more? Can Sun
sell thier Java Desktop
any more? Can Sun have
billions dollars sales
volume? No. No. No.
What Sun's bond holder
can get? nothing.
What Sun's Expert can do?
Go to Microsoft? On
there, Microsoft can give
you money. On there, it
is your home.
Byebye Sun
Joseph Brenner wrote:
closed source programmer
commented on 28 April
2004:
"(1) I pay big taxes at
gunpoint. (2) The money
gets sent to universities
and other non-profits
(e.g., FFRDCs, national
labs). (3) They take my
labor and turn it into
GPLed (not BSD licensed)
software that I cannot
use without giving away
all the IP I developed at
my own expense. "
Hm, now consider the BSD
situation. You get paid
to do "research" at a
publically funded
institution, so you
release your code under
the BSD. Everyone gets
interested in your code,
because it's under an OS
license, they don't worry
about vendor lock-in.
Then you leave the
institution, form a
company, and do a
proprietary fork of the
code.
Congradulations! You got
the government to fund
your start-up company.
(Which then makes only a
tiny amount of
money, and sta...
Be a history wrote: Sun
get married with
Microsoft.
Everyone seen
it.
Such as people say
that "Sun give up his
future"
So disappointed.
Case is so simple.
After Sun help Microsoft
to win the market, what
Sun can do?
Can Sun have billion
dollars sales volume
again? No.
What Sun's bond holder
will get? Nothing.
Where Sun expert can
do/go? Goto Microsoft.
There is your home.
Byebye Sun.
Sid Boyce wrote: elmer
commented:
I think you
just shot your
credibility wad there
buddy. Sun is undeniably
behind in the CPU wars,
but it's ridiculous
hyperbole like yours that
illustrates the often
repeated chorus: there's
no pleasing a GPL Zealot.
Hell, Sun could Open
Source Solaris tomorrow,
and if it wasn't GPL
y'all would be claiming
it was just a publicity
stunt.
------------------
-------------------------
--------------
I'm
talking from decades of
experience, I've worked
on Sun boxes up to E10K
providing Technical
Support worldwide. I've
likewise worked on,
supported and taught
Fujitsu SPARC boxes up to
Primepower 2500, the
latest out there. I've
also taught and supported
IBM and Amdahl
mainframes. I know the
differences in
performance, resilience
and reliability of both
the software and hardware
on those plat...
beachdog wrote: Thanks to
the previous posters for
many insightful comments.
Remember the Scott
McNealy cover story and
interview in Linux
Journal two years ago? .
You can see in the quotes
of Mr. McNealy that Sun
corporate leadership is
caught in a swamp of
"business-speak". From
the article I got the
feeling that Scott is a
really forceful guy that
can dominate his entire
board of directors with
this un-answerable snarl
of ideas called
"business-speak".
It sounds like Sun's
business appproach is
still a shaky jumble.
The damage done to Java
by Microsoft when it was
loosely licensed is an
intensely negative event
for Sun. Sun has never
found an intellectual
path to GPL Java because
of that damage..
Trailer Trash wrote:
Quick pop quiz: who makes
the most money from Java?
Sun, right? Wrong. It's
IBM.
Sun sells Java, but IBM
sells services around it,
and they make a ton of
money doing it.
It's difficult to sell
the idea, but had Sun
completely opened Java
and set up a services
business around it, they
might be farther ahead
than they are now. I say
"might" because IBM
already had a large
services business built,
etc., but let's face it,
they had to start
somewhere.
My main problem with Sun
is the whole "we're open
and you're not" thing,
which they started years
ago and then segued into
a "we're kind of like
open source and you're
not" when that was the
big buzzword. They've
always been a proprietary
software company and
probably always will be.
That's fine, that's their
gig, I just want them to
be honest about it.
closed source programmer
wrote: (1) I pay big
taxes at gunpoint. (2)
The money gets sent to
universities and other
non-profits (e.g.,
FFRDCs, national labs).
(3) They take my labor
and turn it into GPLed
(not BSD licensed)
software that I cannot
use without giving away
all the IP I developed at
my own expense. This is
all very Stallmanist.
Răzvan Corneliu VILT
wrote: I personally am a
fan of both Red Hat and
Sun Microsystems, but I'm
dissapointed of the fact
that they do NOT provide
the sources of their java
desktop system. They
modified GNOME a lot and
as it's GPL/LGPL they
have to make the sources
available on the net.
They didn't. FSF didn't
react to this. I've sent
them multiple mails for
the gnome patches they
used and got no answer.
This IS disapointing.
They did provide only the
sources to the gnome 2.0
they used in solaris.
About Red Hat, their
strategy is very clear.
Almost all the major
GNU/Linux distributions
out there do not offer a
way to get them for free
from day 1. Red Hat does.
For RHEL you only have to
recompile-it, and Fedora
is available for
everyone. Red Hat is
perfectly open source
from my point of view.
elmer wrote: Sid Boyce
commented:
"They've lost the
hardware battle with
their lack of foresight
and talent, producing
stuff that is 20 odd
years behind and
proclaiming it as the
latest greatest."
So you're saying that
multi-threaded cores were
available from everyone
but Sun in 1984?
I think you just shot
your credibility wad
there buddy. Sun is
undeniably behind in the
CPU wars, but it's
ridiculous hyperbole like
yours that illustrates
the often repeated
chorus: there's no
pleasing a GPL Zealot.
Hell, Sun could Open
Source Solaris tomorrow,
and if it wasn't GPL
y'all would be claiming
it was just a publicity
stunt.
thunt wrote: Waaaaaaa!
You won't give us your
source code! Waaaaa!
Things aren't the way I
want them to be!
Waaaaaaa! Sun want's to
make money. Waaaaaa! I
have nothing better to do
than bitch about things
that I only think I have
a clue about!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
dravine wrote: Actually,
I don't code in java, nor
would I want to. If you
look at very mature
projects written using
java such as Eclipse
(www.eclipse.org) you can
find examples of decent
java code, but it still
has it's fundamental
flaws.
I won't argue that there
is a responsibility with
the programmer to
optimise the code, and
I'm not going to argue
that you can't make java
do certain things fast,
but when it comes right
down to it, there is
still the VM sitting
there taking up resources
that could be used more
efficiently if these apps
were compiled to run
natively.
I can understand why java
became popular in the
90's, but if anything OS
has proven that it isn't
necessary. Look at how
many Linux apps run on
almost any hardware, and
most of them have been
ported to other operating
systems with few
problems. Look at the
windows port of the Gimp
for instance.
WillAtMH wrote: "Now add
Oracle to that little
trio. Kinda looks and
feels like MS/Sun/Oracle
are carving the market up
against Big Blue doesn't
it?"
Last I heard, Ellison
hated M$.
rjamestaylor wrote: Sun
has shot itself in its
foot (again) with the
Java Desktop
System, which is more
about technologies other
than Java than it is
about Java,
but that's the point,
isn't it? See, Sun killed
its chances of marketing
their
Linux distribution
by calling it "Java"
Something. Java is so
1990s.
So dot com.
But the desktop is about
Linux and Gnome and
Ximian and ... oh yeah,
it runs
Java stuff, and python
and perl and mono and C
and C++ and Fortran
and...
Techies aren't fooled.
Non-techies eyes glaze
when they hear Java. The
buzz is
Linux. The buzz is GPL.
SCO's audacious claims
roused even more interest
in
Linux and the GPL. Not
"Java." If Sun weren't
focused on their
reflection in the mirror
they'd come out with
StarLinux by Sun to
capitalize on
StarOffice. I'm not
saying it's great or
would suceed, but it'd...
Michael H. Collins wrote:
Thanks for making me sick
this early with all those
quotes from Sun. I could
tell this was going to
happen when Sun announced
its white box linux at
LinuxWorld a few years
ago. It has come
completely to fruition
now. Most of those
quotes sound like they
came from MS spin
Doctors.
Keep up the good work.
JavasCool wrote: Don't
blame the language, blame
the developer. Plenty of
fast Java apps out there.
Plenty of benchmarks
showing Java beating the
crap out of g++ (not gcj,
g++, that's right, the
c++ compiler).
When programmers write
slow c++ programs, they
blame themselves and
figure out how to
optimize their code. When
the same people write
slow Java programs they
blame the language. Go
learn to do Java
optimization!
Xandros acquired
Linspire's Linux assets
after Linspire changed
its name to Digital
Cornerstone. With the
acquisition Xandros CEO
Andy Typaldos has been
telling the press,
'Xandros is already the
third-largest Linux
company in the world, and
... we may already be the
largest private Li
Two of the biggest
launches in Rich Internet
Application history took
place in 2007/2008 when
Adobe launched AIR 1.0 in
February '08 and
Microsoft launched
Silverlight (September
'07). At the 6th
International AJAXWorld
RIA Conference & Expo in
October SYS-CON Events is
delighted to be
Novell says it's going to
'simplify' pricing and
discounts on SLES for
mainframes for the rest
of the year. That means
it's going to cut prices
by 33%-47% by offering a
three-year subscription
for the price of a
two-year subscription or
a five-year subscription
for the price of a three
Red Hat announced
advancements that extend
the Company's Linux
Automation strategy by
providing expanded
capabilities and
incorporating broadened
community involvement for
secure management of both
users and systems across
virtual and physical
enterprise
infrastructures.
Novell announced
Invitrogen has selected
SUSE Linux Enterprise as
the core operating
platform to standardize
and virtualize the
company's servers. A
global provider of
essential life science
technologies for
research, production and
diagnostics, Invitrogen
conducts business in more
tha
On Monday, nine days
ahead of his sentencing
on July 9 for the murder
of his wife, William
DuBois, the lawyer for
ace Linux programmer Hans
Reiser, filed a brief
with the court saying -
for the very first time
since this case began -
that under penalty of
perjury that he think
Reiser '
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