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Linux Viewpoint: Sun Shows Its True Colors, Says Groklaw's "PJ"

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If you are still in doubt as to Sun's plans for the future, particularly its relationship with Open Source and the GPL, you will find an eWeek interview with Jonathan Schwartz helpful. Here's part of what he said:

"Should we license technology from Microsoft, it would clearly advance the interests, for example, of the Java Desktop System, and if that's running on Linux, then that obviously helps the underlying Linux community as well as the overall growth and viability of open-source technology.

"Just remember, ....RealPlayer's not open-source, but its availability certainly enhances the value of our Java Desktop System.

"There is work done in the open-source community to advance StarOffice, but certainly Sun stands behind and indemnifies StarOffice. To the extent that we license protocols from Microsoft, we would be including them in StarOffice-and not obviously distributing them free of charge-just as we do today with RealPlayer.

"There is nothing that precludes us from taking the protocols we license from Microsoft and incorporating them into our products. Now, where those products run is up to Sun. So, if we take a license from Microsoft, there's nothing that precludes us from incorporating that technology into our Java Desktop System. "

So there you have it. It looks like Sun is indeed going to re-run Caldera, right down to creating a Linux distro (Java Desktop) with lots of proprietary addons in an attempt to enforce per-seat/per-employee licensing. Deja vu all over again. And it hopes we will all be foolish enough to not care about the GPL and thus forsake Red Hat and SuSE, etc. Dream on, Sun, dream on. The real question is, when that fails, then what will Sun do?

Schwartz attacks Red Hat:

"It's a naive analysis of the open-source community that says it's all about forking over source code. It's not—it's about building community, about making investments in marketing, in developing technologies that run on, with and through the open-source community. We have a very long history of working with the open-source community.

"Despite some of our peers in the industry who hire people with titles like evangelist, our folks have titles like developer and architect, and they go work with the open-source community to build technologies and solutions that solve customers' problems.

"I would point back to the Java Desktop System as evidence of the work we've done with the GNOME community, the Mozilla community and the Linux community to really bring products to market that don't just add more lumps of source code into the source tree but deliver value to customers so that they want to inject money into an ecosystem and make it self-sustaining and profitable."

Sick to your stomach yet? He doesn't mind Novell, he says on page two, because he and Microsoft share a common view, and he thinks competition is a good thing:

"Novell's participation in the market is a good thing, because it validates the market as creating an opportunity for more than simply one company. So, I welcome the competition. To us, it's really emblematic of the nature of the relationship we have with Microsoft, which is a deeply held belief that a rising tide lifts all boats, and that interoperability between Sun and Microsoft grows the overall market for both of our products rather than advantages one company versus another."

Microsoft? That Microsoft? The one twice found guilty of antitrust violations? That Microsoft believes that a rising tide lifts all boats? Is Sun in for a shock someday.

He is totally into DRM, and authentication, and autoupdate, and it's all about market share. Here is a hint as to how to block them, should you care to:

"So, with interoperability and a focus on ease of use, we're trying to use both StarOffice as well as Java Studio Creator to create a broader market opportunity and add interoperability to that mix. It's about growing the largest market possible, trying to help build the biggest tent atop all the developers in the world rather than forcing people to go make choices that may preclude their opportunities. . . .So, I am very convinced, with Steve, that he who has the most customers—and I would just add developers into that—is ultimately going to be the long-term winner. "

They don't have the biggest tent if developers stay away. And if you are in the mood to throw up, here's a couple of sentences that just might do it:

"We're going back to pub-sub, and we're moving away from a concept of 'I'm going to go to a Web site and pick up content.' The pull model of computing—the days are numbered. . . . At the end of the day, that's great [Sun's competition with Microsoft] for customers. The fact that we're committed to interoperability means either choice is a safe choice. We're very bullish on the future of the network and very bullish on the future of intellectual property in open source as well as in open standards to continue to drive that opportunity."

Excuse me? The "future of intellectual property in open source"? We certainly can't complain that they were confusing or schizo here. It's plain as day. It's going after Red Hat. It doesn't support the GPL. It will push open standards as being what you really want, not open source. Sun thinks  that we won't care, as long as it's easy and fun. Itintends to be the substitute for free/open source software. Here you go: Brand X Linux. And it intends to destroy the Internet. If you think that sounds wonderful, stop and consider that if Sun gets its way, there would never be a Groklaw. Microsoft never did get the Internet. It thinks all we want to do is buy stuff. So, that's their plan, Stan.

I had a chance to take a look at Sun's Java Desktop evaluation CD, thanks to a friend who used to be a Java developer, until he got the CD and noticed the same thing I noticed when I tried it. First, there isn't any sign on the cover that there is anything GPL inside, even though there is plenty. It does mention Linux and the GPL VERY briefly in the command window during bootup, but it is so brief, unless you were paying very close attention, you could easily miss it. There is also a rather draconian EULA as you boot into the system that mentions absolutely nothing about the GPL anywhere and expressly forbids you from making copies of the CD. There is a brief mention of a third-party licenses directory in the EULA text. You really could get the CD and run it without ever knowing it had anything GNU/Linuxy in it or that the GPL provides you with guaranteed freedoms that Sun would like you not to know you have. My friend tells me he will no longer do any Java development. He was about to recommend to his boss that they do some Java Desktops, but now he intends to recommend only a distro that acknowledges its roots.

Are you convinced yet, all you folks who send me e-mail about how Sun really is supportive of the Open Source community? Not yet? Then how about this article in eWeek, where Schwartz calls Red Hat a "proprietary" Linux? He says they forked and now CIOs are noticing that "Red Hat has pretty much forked the distribution" so now they realize "open source does not equal open standards. Open standards, which Sun has always supported, are better. Proprietary open source [like RHEL] can come back and bite you."

Naturally, Red Hat responds, and so does Linus and neither agrees with Sun:

"Informed of the comments, Red Hat spokesman Leigh Day offered that 'Red Hat Enterprise Linux is licensed under the GPL, and we're totally open source.'

'"[Red Hat is] not proprietary,' Day continued. 'We are fully committed to open source and our code reflects that. Red Hat has no proprietary software built in our distribution. Our core strategy is built on open source and we will not deviate from that strategy.' . . .

"In addition, Linus Torvalds, Linux's founder, considers Red Hat Linux to be Linux. 'Sure, RH definitely has their own vendor kernel, but it's not proprietary, and a number of the top Linux kernel contributors are Red Hat employees,' Torvalds said."

Time to think about OpenOffice and Sun pulling a SCO someday, gang. Remember that patent they put into their Linux distro, Mad Hatter? Time to think. It is thinking, but in old-fashioned ways, about mo' money, and it will fail there too, of course. Sun has made its choice and opted for The Way Things Used To Be. It's a new world, and Sun is not in it.

About Pamela Jones
Known to millions of online readers as "PJ," Pamela Jones is the editor and moderator of Groklaw. They also know her as the heart of the open-source community's legal battle against litigation aimed at the Linux kernel and other free and open-source software.

Sceptic wrote: PJ, have you the power to delete dissenting comments here as you do on your own blog?
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linuxworld reader wrote: More stories please. Anything. Keep em coming PJ. I found the link on GL
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dravine wrote: Bob - Perhaps I was unclear in my original post. I don't write java applications, but I do have the misfortune of using them frequently. The Eclipse project is probably one of the more well known projects, and it is certainly one of the best examples of Java development out there. It's certainly the most stable Java app that I've ever used, but it's still slow. And before you write something like "well if you run java on a 386 it's gonna be slow!", I thought I'd give you a rundown of what I run this app on. I've got a 2.4Ghz P4, 30 Gig UDMA5 hard drive, and 384 megs of ram, which is why I think it's the tool at fault. I guess I'm just of the opinion that there are a lot better technologies out there to build apps on, at least for apps that are designed to run client side. I've lately been using a lot...
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Bob wrote: dravine commented on 28 April 2004: "Java is a load of garbage, flat out. I use it every day, and I hate it every day. Apps written in java are slow, and unstable, so all this java support is really pointless. Yes, java lets you write something that runs on many platforms, and it sucks on all of them equally." Woah.. there's an interesting viewpoint. "I create crap with this tool everday - therefore, it must be the tool that's at fault." Hey Buddy, did you ever stop to think it might not be the tool that's the problem? - BA
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FUTURE wrote: I reallize that Sun is closed to Microsoft. Sun is so risky. Microsoft's jump to High End Server now. How Sun can survy in the future? Sun will lost the market in the future. Microsof will say, "MS Server is cheaper & Better than Sun Unix Server". How Sun can sell their Unix server any more? What Sun's really want to do now? Such as People say that " Sun is giving up its Future. So disappointed. After Sun help Microsoft success in the world, can Sun sell expensive Unix Server any more? Can Sun sell thier Java Desktop any more? Can Sun have billions dollars sales volume? No. No. No. What Sun's bond holder can get? nothing. What Sun's Expert can do? Go to Microsoft? On there, Microsoft can give you money. On there, it is your home. Byebye Sun
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Joseph Brenner wrote: closed source programmer commented on 28 April 2004: "(1) I pay big taxes at gunpoint. (2) The money gets sent to universities and other non-profits (e.g., FFRDCs, national labs). (3) They take my labor and turn it into GPLed (not BSD licensed) software that I cannot use without giving away all the IP I developed at my own expense. " Hm, now consider the BSD situation. You get paid to do "research" at a publically funded institution, so you release your code under the BSD. Everyone gets interested in your code, because it's under an OS license, they don't worry about vendor lock-in. Then you leave the institution, form a company, and do a proprietary fork of the code. Congradulations! You got the government to fund your start-up company. (Which then makes only a tiny amount of money, and sta...
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Be a history wrote: Sun get married with Microsoft. Everyone seen it. Such as people say that "Sun give up his future" So disappointed. Case is so simple. After Sun help Microsoft to win the market, what Sun can do? Can Sun have billion dollars sales volume again? No. What Sun's bond holder will get? Nothing. Where Sun expert can do/go? Goto Microsoft. There is your home. Byebye Sun.
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Sid Boyce wrote: elmer commented: I think you just shot your credibility wad there buddy. Sun is undeniably behind in the CPU wars, but it's ridiculous hyperbole like yours that illustrates the often repeated chorus: there's no pleasing a GPL Zealot. Hell, Sun could Open Source Solaris tomorrow, and if it wasn't GPL y'all would be claiming it was just a publicity stunt. ------------------ ------------------------- -------------- I'm talking from decades of experience, I've worked on Sun boxes up to E10K providing Technical Support worldwide. I've likewise worked on, supported and taught Fujitsu SPARC boxes up to Primepower 2500, the latest out there. I've also taught and supported IBM and Amdahl mainframes. I know the differences in performance, resilience and reliability of both the software and hardware on those plat...
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beachdog wrote: Thanks to the previous posters for many insightful comments. Remember the Scott McNealy cover story and interview in Linux Journal two years ago? . You can see in the quotes of Mr. McNealy that Sun corporate leadership is caught in a swamp of "business-speak". From the article I got the feeling that Scott is a really forceful guy that can dominate his entire board of directors with this un-answerable snarl of ideas called "business-speak". It sounds like Sun's business appproach is still a shaky jumble. The damage done to Java by Microsoft when it was loosely licensed is an intensely negative event for Sun. Sun has never found an intellectual path to GPL Java because of that damage..
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Trailer Trash wrote: Quick pop quiz: who makes the most money from Java? Sun, right? Wrong. It's IBM. Sun sells Java, but IBM sells services around it, and they make a ton of money doing it. It's difficult to sell the idea, but had Sun completely opened Java and set up a services business around it, they might be farther ahead than they are now. I say "might" because IBM already had a large services business built, etc., but let's face it, they had to start somewhere. My main problem with Sun is the whole "we're open and you're not" thing, which they started years ago and then segued into a "we're kind of like open source and you're not" when that was the big buzzword. They've always been a proprietary software company and probably always will be. That's fine, that's their gig, I just want them to be honest about it.
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closed source programmer wrote: (1) I pay big taxes at gunpoint. (2) The money gets sent to universities and other non-profits (e.g., FFRDCs, national labs). (3) They take my labor and turn it into GPLed (not BSD licensed) software that I cannot use without giving away all the IP I developed at my own expense. This is all very Stallmanist.
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Răzvan Corneliu VILT wrote: I personally am a fan of both Red Hat and Sun Microsystems, but I'm dissapointed of the fact that they do NOT provide the sources of their java desktop system. They modified GNOME a lot and as it's GPL/LGPL they have to make the sources available on the net. They didn't. FSF didn't react to this. I've sent them multiple mails for the gnome patches they used and got no answer. This IS disapointing. They did provide only the sources to the gnome 2.0 they used in solaris. About Red Hat, their strategy is very clear. Almost all the major GNU/Linux distributions out there do not offer a way to get them for free from day 1. Red Hat does. For RHEL you only have to recompile-it, and Fedora is available for everyone. Red Hat is perfectly open source from my point of view.
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elmer wrote: Sid Boyce commented: "They've lost the hardware battle with their lack of foresight and talent, producing stuff that is 20 odd years behind and proclaiming it as the latest greatest." So you're saying that multi-threaded cores were available from everyone but Sun in 1984? I think you just shot your credibility wad there buddy. Sun is undeniably behind in the CPU wars, but it's ridiculous hyperbole like yours that illustrates the often repeated chorus: there's no pleasing a GPL Zealot. Hell, Sun could Open Source Solaris tomorrow, and if it wasn't GPL y'all would be claiming it was just a publicity stunt.
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thunt wrote: Waaaaaaa! You won't give us your source code! Waaaaa! Things aren't the way I want them to be! Waaaaaaa! Sun want's to make money. Waaaaaa! I have nothing better to do than bitch about things that I only think I have a clue about! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
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dravine wrote: Actually, I don't code in java, nor would I want to. If you look at very mature projects written using java such as Eclipse (www.eclipse.org) you can find examples of decent java code, but it still has it's fundamental flaws. I won't argue that there is a responsibility with the programmer to optimise the code, and I'm not going to argue that you can't make java do certain things fast, but when it comes right down to it, there is still the VM sitting there taking up resources that could be used more efficiently if these apps were compiled to run natively. I can understand why java became popular in the 90's, but if anything OS has proven that it isn't necessary. Look at how many Linux apps run on almost any hardware, and most of them have been ported to other operating systems with few problems. Look at the windows port of the Gimp for instance.
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WillAtMH wrote: "Now add Oracle to that little trio. Kinda looks and feels like MS/Sun/Oracle are carving the market up against Big Blue doesn't it?" Last I heard, Ellison hated M$.
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phil wrote: Despite some of our peers in the industry who hire people with titles like evangelist, our folks have titles like developer and architect

He must have forgotten Gilad Bracha, who is a Computational Theologist at Sun. :-)

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rjamestaylor wrote: Sun has shot itself in its foot (again) with the Java Desktop System, which is more about technologies other than Java than it is about Java, but that's the point, isn't it? See, Sun killed its chances of marketing their Linux distribution by calling it "Java" Something. Java is so 1990s. So dot com. But the desktop is about Linux and Gnome and Ximian and ... oh yeah, it runs Java stuff, and python and perl and mono and C and C++ and Fortran and... Techies aren't fooled. Non-techies eyes glaze when they hear Java. The buzz is Linux. The buzz is GPL. SCO's audacious claims roused even more interest in Linux and the GPL. Not "Java." If Sun weren't focused on their reflection in the mirror they'd come out with StarLinux by Sun to capitalize on StarOffice. I'm not saying it's great or would suceed, but it'd...
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Michael H. Collins wrote: Thanks for making me sick this early with all those quotes from Sun. I could tell this was going to happen when Sun announced its white box linux at LinuxWorld a few years ago. It has come completely to fruition now. Most of those quotes sound like they came from MS spin Doctors. Keep up the good work.
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JavasCool wrote: Don't blame the language, blame the developer. Plenty of fast Java apps out there. Plenty of benchmarks showing Java beating the crap out of g++ (not gcj, g++, that's right, the c++ compiler). When programmers write slow c++ programs, they blame themselves and figure out how to optimize their code. When the same people write slow Java programs they blame the language. Go learn to do Java optimization!
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